Definitions

One of the major issues when theists attempt to dismiss the arguments of Atheists is that of definitions.

Atheism for a start is one of contention.

This is something many debaters of Christians have struggled with. Some Christians have the misconception that it is a world view, in similar way communism, or indeed Christianity, can be seen as a world view.

With these two examples comes whole works of doctrine and teachings. Even within these world views there is a huge canyon of disagreement on what is and what is not, part of that world view.

For example the creation myth, some Christians fully believe that the world is around 6000 years old and evolution is wrong. Then there are others who are fine with evolution and a 4 billion plus yr old earth.

The inner working of a world view can be debated and discussed.

To keep things clear many atheistic debaters have resolved this problem with a simple defamation of Atheism:

“Atheism is a rejection of a claim, the claim being that there is a god or gods.”

This is a good definition; it’s clear and to the point. So why are there problems otherwise.


Here is the definition from : www.dictionary.com

“One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.”

So what is wrong with this definition?

It’s the use of the word deny. Dictionary.com has 8 definitions for the word deny. See below. 7 of them are very similar. 1 is not.

Christians tend to jump on the most common use definition of deny, which is to deny someone something, or hold back on making it available: e.g. deny an employee a pay raise. A pay rise is possible, it’s just being denied. Parents not letting a child have an ice cream. The ice cream is there, the child is simply not allowed it. And it is here that Christians mess up, they think that because Atheists deny god, that is evidence for existence, in the same way ice cream exists, the child just is denied it, or a person on a diet may deny themselves a hamburger. The hamburger is there, they are just denying it to themselves, and that, sadly, is how most theists see this definition of Atheism. Whereas the first definition of deny is clearly what Atheists mean. “to state that (something declared or believed to be true) is not true”.

And that is the problem with Christian’s belief that our denial is somehow proof. It is not. Simple English. This is why it is important to not use the word ‘deny’, unless you are prepared to educate theists on its many meanings.


1.
to state that (something declared or believed to be true) is not true: to deny an accusation.
2.
to refuse to agree or accede to: to deny a petition.
3.
to withhold the possession, use, or enjoyment of: to deny access to secret information.
4.
to withhold something from, or refuse to grant a request of: to deny a beggar.
5.
to refuse to recognize or acknowledge; disown; disavow; repudiate: to deny one's gods.
6.
to withhold (someone) from accessibility to a visitor: The secretary denied his employer to all those without appointments.
7.
Obsolete . to refuse to take or accept.
—Idiom
8.
deny oneself, to refrain from satisfying one's desires or needs; practice self-denial.

A UFO sighting.

Ok, I know, two posts in one day.

I am going to relate an experince I had back in the late 80s.
A friend and I were driving back to or small town from the city after having been at the cinima, can not remember what we saw, does not matter.

We pulled off a long country road on to another long country road that run towards the coast. In the distance we could see the flashing light of an aircraft, maybe out over the ocean. As we drove towards the coast the aircraft appeard to be heading towards us.
It was then heading towards us very fast. It shot by very high and very fast. I stopped quickly and we both got out to see if we could spot the aircraft.

To our minds we had seen a high altitude aircraft heading at an extremely fast speed head from the coast, towards us and then past.

We both stood on each side of the car stareing at an arcing electric fence about 30 metres behind the car and up on a bank.

There was silence for awhile, and then my friend said "That was fucken freaky".

So why raise this, well simple, if we had chosen not to stop, instead driving on, we would have seen or fast aircraft disappearing in the mirror. And we would have wondered what on earth was travelling so fast and so high.

Instead we investigated. And a simple explanation was found for what we saw.

Without an explanation, our perception of what we saw would have been so far off as to be rediculas.

Cheers AK.

Quick Update

I was going to do a big rant, but then not much point, I still pretty good about last weeks one.

So, a quick update. Empire Avenue is going well. I am on there as (e)Kiwi.

Saw a great video on "Openmindedness" I must admit it answered a few questions for me around why some of the christians I debate with think they are openminded and I ain't.
Check it out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI well worth the time.

I have a couple of unfinished blogs to finish and post, one is on the word "Deny" this is an interesting word because it almost has two distinct meanings. Another is on my Catholic upbringing. My very happy, non-molested, very wonderful experience with the Catholic Church.

Thats about it, I have been off work with a cold, hopefully back tommorow, also, the dam speel check on my Firefox is not working. So sorry for all the spealling mestakes.

All the best AK

Identity Crisis??

First it was on EA and now on Twitter. Yes I have changed my Names. On EmpireAvenue I am now e(Kiwi) The Thinking Kiwi. And on Twitter, I am not EA_Kiwi. The EA of course stands for “Evil Atheist”.

So why the change?

Simple, I am now following and investing in people not from the Atheist Community. And while an Atheist, I am not just an Atheist, I am also a lot of other things. I am slightly over weight, in denial about some things, have bad taste in clothing and drive an old car, not old enough to be cool, but not new enough to look good.

Anyway, my point is, as much as I do not like Religion being stuff down peoples throats, I do not think I should stuff my non religion down peoples throats.

You Tube and Blog Spot are safe, if people visit these sites, they can expect an Atheist.

So, I hope that has sorted out any identity issues.

I am going to be bogging non religious stuff soon, but I will keep that on here.

Random Thoughts

Ok, I need to write something, not sure what. So, I am just going to hit keys and see what comes out.

I have been an atheist for about three, maybe four years now. Lately the more interesting thing I have noticed is how "Church Aware" I have become. IF anyone being interviewed on the radio or tv or in a Mag happens to mention Religion, I notice fast. I am sure I notice now more than I used too, that, or people really are talking about it more.

In the last 6 months since being on You Tube I have had the pleasure to enter into debate with several Christians. Some, just out right block the moment you say something they don't like, or more likely something that shows what a load of crap they are spewing.

It has been quite and education in debating, you really do need to be careful what you say. It seems that while most are happy to make wild assertions about who/what did this or that, and that no the bible does not really mean that, you are taking i out of context, the moment you say anything, unless you have fully verified what you said with at least 30 links and/or books references there is no way you can have a point. So, you really do need to say weather you are putting across an opinion or something you know as a fact.

Facts are another great thing, to some, if it is in the bible it's a fact. I mean how dumb is that. Is it not that obvious if someone is making it clear that they are an atheist then there is little point in quoting the bible, because, for me anyway, the bible is really just garbage, and hard to believe anyone actually reads it, let alone goes and pays large amounts of money to study it in bible school.

And unless you can prove that you have also attended a bible study college then you can not possibly understand the meaning of the bible. That is puzzling. Because when it says "Sarahrah took a sharp stone and cut off her son's foreskin and waved it in front of her husbands feet so God would spare Moses's life" (In Exodus) How can you see that as anything other than child mutilation to please God. I mean how the heck could you see that and come up with, "No, that is Gods way of showing how much his Son Jesus will love you" WTF??

And that is another thing that really gets up my goat, this disowning the God of the Old Testament when it suits. I am sorry but that God is one third of the God you pray too. The same one Muslims call Allah, man, how fast they claim NO, Allah is not the same god, well kick me with an ass (not a talking one please), it is. Very clearly is.

Which kinds of takes me on a circle back to where I started this ramble, it's amazing what Christians will disregard/ignore in an attempt to believe. And Straw man arguments, are they nuts, how do they have the stupidity to use them. Though to be sure I can pick them a lot quicker now than I used to. Easily recognised by the "WTF", ""How did you get that from what I said" feeling that runs up your back just as you are about to try and back up the stupid straw man they just tore down.

Straw man is not clever, it's dumb, why can't they see that?

I could go on for ages, but I wont, it's nice to get a bit of my chest ever now and then.

I have run out of steam. I will do this again soon. Just write what ever comes to mind. This is my blog, I can say what I like, and don't need any freak-en evidence to back it up.

Thanks AK.

Blog Update

Ok, been a few weeks, and the last post, hardly a good'n I am working on another blog on definitions, so watch for that.

I am working on my first You Tube Video, OK, I have been working on it for several months. I will get there.

Brain washing of the masses.

A growing trend, and one that certainly has roots with Dawkins, Hicthens, Harris etc... is a lumping of moderates into the same camp as the fundamentalists of their chosen faith. Why do this?

I obviously can not speak for others. But from my own point of view it's this:

Anyone who believes in an imaginary friend who is watching over them, and can do this while completely disregarding the inaccuracies, the contradictions, cruelty and down right silliness of their religious texts is a bit loopy. They are disconnected and not living in the real world.

I know that a lot of these people are harmless, doing no one harm, and in fact are helping a lot of people along the way. So why is this a problem for me, simply because I know they can do good without believing in a god. And do it in the real world.

Basically the need for religion and religious teaching is in the past. We get our morals from being educated, from being part of a working civilization. We do not harm others because we would not wish this on anyone we love or ourselves. This is what makes us who we are. We can go beyond just our family grouping to help others.

We should celebrate this wonderful instinct that is in most of us, I say most, because there are some genuine nut jobs.

Also I have lived within the confounds of a religious bound mind, completely unaware of the restraints this put on me. After the 27 years it took from when I first questioned the role of religion to when I realised there simply was no god, I still had problems with blasphemy and guilt. Yes, even as an atheist the indoctrination I had received was still at play in my mind. It really is that strong.

Many atheists reports this, I take comfort when I see this. Even though I rejected the claim for a god, and become an Atheist, I still had the brainwashing that went with it, at a guess I would say that took 2 years to clear, and a lot of reading. That being books by Harris, Dawkins and others as well as the bible.

I had to deprogram myself. I know that sounds kind of strange, but the truth is you can program your own mind. Its not actually that hard. Many training courses rely on this ability to get a message across to there trainees.

A few years back I was a forecourt attendant for a major fuel company, I did the night shift, and as such was at risk of being robbed, even worse, being robbed at gunpoint. So we were all sent on a course. On this course the simplest thing we were taught was to over the following 3 weeks say to our selves each day three to five times a day, "I survive armed robberies" and repeat it 15 times over and over.

The reason for this is when we are confronted with a new situation I brains try to find something with in them to guide us. It's an automatic response. So when a person walks into the store and points a gun at you the first thing your mind does is say "it's an armed robbery" and the brains automatic response is to say "I survive armed robberies" thereby putting you at ease right from the start.

To be fair, I never got this put into play. Which actually is a good thing, as I do not know if I would indeed survive an armed robbery. However, there is more.

While armed robberies were not a major for me, leaving the keys in my car was. Many times I would get out of my car and lock it with the keys still in the ignition. This plagued me for years. So with my new found brain programing I said to my self 15 times, 3 to 4 times a day for 3 weeks "when I leave the car I take the keys with me". I did this, It has been 15 years since I left my keys in the ignition. The power of brain programing is real, very, scary real.

So that is were the power of prey comes in. Calculate how many times you said the lord's prayer over the years. No wonder you believe. Sad but true, it really is just brain programing.

So why do I lump moderates in with fundies, actually its the other way round for me, I lump fundies in with the moderates. They are all being conned, a con that was so good, that it is still going on thousands of years after it was set up. So good that those sucked in think they are somehow even more special by making the brain programing even more effective.

Living in the real world is one of the treats of being an atheist. It is pure and wonderful. It is real. and I did not have to repeat this 15 times, 3 -5 times a day for 3 weeks to see the pure world. I just had to deprogram the "My father, who is in heaven, holy be thy name"

Peace V

AK